This is a test. Do you see anything wrong? This is typical of several distributors I've gotten in trade that people have not been able to get to run. Occasionally, it is easier to just swap one of my spares by mail. When I receive their distributor, the problems are often easy to see. In this case there is a zinc bolt on top for the condenser terminal rather than the correct special brass screw. Look a little closer and there is a set of points that may be gapped a little wide and the point contacts are not properly aligned.
A close-up of the point contacts shows how badly aligned these are. Point contacts that do not hit square and straight will quickly burn and pit. After fixing this same problem on several sets of points, I believe what has happened is the tooling these are made with has gotten old. Whatever they use to stamp the point base plate is no longer making a complete 90 degree bend for the tab that holds the fixed point contact. A small pair of needle nose pliers with good grip can be used to bend/twist the fixed contact to align the points. When things like this are visible, there are usually other things that are not exactly right. Anything that isn't set exactly as it should be, is contributing to failure.
One of the things I like about these old tractors is being able to fiddle with things like points. These old engines will usually start telling you they need service, LONG before they quit running. I get many emails that start something like, "my tractor was getting harder and harder to start, now it won't start at all". Why not fix it before the grass is a foot tall or it's snowing an inch an hour? Well, that's nice in theory, but out in the real world with professional procrastinators like me, maintenance often takes a back seat to essential activities like drinking beer and throwing darts. Ok, I haven't had a beer in many years, so don't even have that excuse.
Modern cars have spoiled us. We are losing the ability to pay attention. "Getting harder to start", means it's PAST time for maintenance. It is often impossible to say "the" problem is air cleaner, points, condenser, plugs, wires, cap, ignition switch, etc. By the time I get any "won't-start" tractor running again, I've fixed several things that could have been "the" problem. If you suspect points, it only takes a minute to check them on a side distributor engine. Maybe 2 minutes for a front distributor. You can try popping the front cap and using a mirror to get a look, but I'm going to just pull the front distributor, and replace it with a spare. If I'm working on a side distributor, I get something to sit on, or sit on the tire.
You should have a set of ignition point files in your tool box, on the tractor. These are small, thin, flexible files, with a square tip that is easy to slip between the points. In fact, a good "point file" really isn't a file, it is a burnisher. The purpose is to clean and polish rather than remove lots of material. If the points look discolored or wet, just running the file through them a few times is often enough to get a tractor started. Do this with the points closed, using normal spring tension to polish both contact surfaces at the same time. If this gets the tractor started, mark it on your list to completely service the distributor as soon as possible.
While messing with the points, grab the end of the distributor shaft and see if there is any side play. Watch the points and see if the gap is changing while trying to move the shaft side to side. These engines are 50 to 70 years old. It might have been a L O N G time since the last distributor rebuild. New distributor bushings only cost around $10 each and most anyone can replace bushings. If the shaft is badly worn, you might need a new one. That's a little more expensive. If rebuilding is beyond your ability, rebuilt or new distributors are available. A sloppy distributor shaft is nothing but trouble. It needs to be fixed as soon as possible. Here are some links to my step-by-step distributor rebuild pages for the FRONT DISTRIBUTOR and for the SIDE OR ANGLE MOUNT DISTRIBUTOR
Check inside of distributor cap for dirt, moisture, or carbon tracking. Usually the cap can just be wiped out with a rag. Clean any deposits from the springy terminal on top of the rotor. Look at the end terminal of the rotor and the spark plug terminals inside the cap. Look for deposits or signs of actual contact. The end of the rotor should get close but never actually touch the terminals inside the cap. This is a high voltage system. A spark hot enough to jump the spark plug gap (under pressure in the cylinder) is plenty hot enough to jump a gap between rotor and distributor terminals. Back in the bad old days we could buy clear plastic distributor caps. It was really cool to watch the operation of the points and actually see sparks going to each spark plug wire. If it looks like the rotor has hit some of the spark plug terminals in the cap, check the distributor shaft bushings again.
There have been cases where a new rotor has hit terminals inside the distributor cap. This usually causes the distributor cap to crack or break completely apart. Replacement rotors and caps from the land of almost fits continue to cause problems. One suggestion is to buy a new cap and rotor at the same time from the same place. This should have a better chance that they will be a matched set. Even better, buy tractor parts from a specialty supplier such as just8ns.com. In some cases it may cost a little more for parts that appear to be identical, but the specialty suppliers have a much bigger incentive to maintain quality control of their parts inventory. Buyer Beware Cheap Tractor Parts are exactly that, cheap parts.
We used to routinely replace points and condenser on cars. Tractors don't get driven nearly as many miles or as fast. There is much less wear and tear. Points and condenser can often remain in service on a tractor for several years. In fact. replacement parts have become such poor quality, we are often better-off using old parts. Look at the surface of the points. A magnifying glass may be required. If the surface looks smooth, the condenser is good, and the correct rating. Don't change the condenser unless there appears to be some other problem like rust. If the points are pitted and burned looking, replace the condenser. If you see a slight bulge on one side and a matching dimple on the other contace, that is normal for a set that has been run a while. Carefully check the terminal for the condenser wire and where the points connect to the coil. These connections must be clean, solid and completely insulated from any other metal.
Are they making point contacts out of something other than a tungsten alloy? Before electronic ignitions became standard, point contacts were made of a Tungsten alloy. Point contacts were solid tungsten material all the way thru. Later, bonded point contacts appeared. These had a small bit of tungsten material welded to a cheaper base material. They were generally considered inferior to solid contacts, but any performance difference was insignificant. We still filed those with no problems because the rubbing blocks would wear down long before we could file completely thru the contact material. The type of material used for rubbing blocks varied quite a bit and some "racing" points had more spring tension than stock replacement points. Some of those could wear the rubbing blocks down in a hurry. I have a nice set of point files and polishers that have probably been around since the Model T and they have always been considered the right tool for the job. Are modern replacement points different? I don't know, but I believe point contacts are still being made of a tungsten alloy, so filing and polishing them with a proper set of point files should restore the contact surfaces like new. Do not use sandpaper, matchbook covers, paper bags or other things to clean point contacts. These will leave grit and fibers behind.
Point contacts are tungsten alloy. This material is very hard. Tungsten blanks for ignition points start as powdered metal that is compressed and heated to fuse the powder. Then the material is post-forged to refine the structure. As with any manufacturing process there are less-expensive methods that result in a finished product that may not be as completely fused. The manufacturer may decide post forging is unnecessary for the intended use. Tungsten is heavy. Tungsten blanks intended to be machined into darts or balance weights do not need to be the higher quality post forged material. There is absolutely nothing to stop a manufacturer from using lower-quality tungsten blanks to make ignition points. The lower quality material erodes and oxidizes faster.
As to filing vs using an abrasive, they sold metal point files for a reason! If you use anything other than a metal point file, it can leave behind microscopic particles of non-conductive material.
The correct point gap for a front distributor is 0.015". For a side distributor it is 0.025". I've adjusted many sets of points in a bunch of different engines over the years. I can tell just by looking at them if they are close enough to run, but I'm still going to use the proper size feeler gauge to set them as close as possible to perfect. The wire type gap gauges are easier to use, but a flat type feeler gauge can be just as accurate. These engines seem a bit picky and always start and run better when I take the time to do this as perfect as possible.
Looking at the guts in the distributor, the points are bolted to a flat plate under the rotor. The rotor should easily pull straight off. If this is a side distributor engine, watch out for a small spring clip. The clip should stay on the distributor shaft but may get stuck inside the rotor. Don't lose that clip! The spring clip is what keeps the rotor tight. The distributor shaft has a flat spot that corresponds to the hole in the rotor, so the rotor only fits one way.
If you have the front distributor on your work bench, ignore this paragraph. For side distributor engines, make sure the tractor is in neutral, then bump the starter until it stops with the points open. It is ideal when the high point on the distributor cam stops right on the rubbing block of the points. The mechanical advance in the distributor will allow the distributor shaft to be turned slightly if it stops just a little off the peak. The distributor has a mechanical advance mechanism under the plate. No need to remove the plate to look at the mechanism, unless you are rebuilding the distributor.
With the front distributor, we avoid all this. We take the distributor to the workbench, get comfortable and turn the distributor shaft anywhere we want it. Once we have the rubbing block sitting on a point of the distributor cam, check the gap between the two pieces of contact material. What we are measuring is the maximum distance the distributor cam can open the points.
If we are replacing the points, they are held to the timing plate in the distributor by a screw at each end of the fixed point bracket. Ignore the screw in the middle of the point strap on the front distributor. That is a special eccentric screw that is used when adjusting the points. The side distributor does not have this simple eccentric screw adjuster, the side distributor has a notch in the points that can be pried with a flat blade screwdriver to help set the gap.
Install the points in the distributor with the mounting screws loose, so the plate can still move in the slotted holes. On the front distributor, the eccentric bolt in the middle can now be turned to "set" the proper gap. With the side distributor we have to manually pry the points until the gap is correct. Tighten the screws and re-check the gap. It probably moved a bit. Loosen the screws and try again. If the points closed a bit, try starting with a little too much gap. It often takes several whacks, but this has to be done correctly. Almost right, isn't good enough.
What happens if the point screws are stripped and will not hold tight? There are two options: buy a whole new breaker plate assembly or try replacing the screws with the next larger size. The replacement screw size is a #8-32 x 3/16" screw. Be very careful with that length. Longer screws will interfere with the rotating advance weights below the top plate. If your top plate already has the larger screws, it's time for a new top plate assembly. The front distributor top plate assembly should come with a new bushing already installed and a new set of points.
This page was getting too long, so I created separate front and side distributor pages.
FRONT DISTRIBUTOR DETAILS
All Ford-Ferguson 9N, 2N, and Early Ford 8N
SIDE DISTRIBUTOR REBUILD
Late Ford 8N (50-52)
BACK TO TOPContent and Web Design by K. LaRue — This Site Was Last Updated 19 DEC 2019.
Optimized for Firefox
All Tradenames and Trademarks referred to on these web pages are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with this web site, nor is this site sponsored or endorsed by them in any way.
All email addresses for this web site are set to agressively block ALL unsolicited advertising, sales pitches, nuisance web service offers, and other spam messages. I do not, and will not respond to the few that manage to make it thru the filters.
If you have any questions, or problems with this site, please send me a message: